Quote from: finertoga on July 12, 2024, 08:05:01 PMIt sounds like you’re rejecting yourself, a lot of mind reading going on where you try and interpret how women feel based on eye contact and societal standards. Have you actually had women tell you “you’re too short for me?” 5’5” is short but it is actually more essential for less good looking short guys to get LL than good looking short guys. This is due to the “halo effect” which essentially is a psychological effect where someone has one superior trait that makes their negative traits less noticeable. So a pretty girl will have red flags ignored by guys because she’s hot. Or a tall guy who’s abusive or ugly will still be desired by women because he’s tall. The same also applies to face. If a guy is very good looking it can to some extent offset his diminished height. You can take two guys, both 5’5” but one is average facially the other good looking, and the good looking guy will be less rejected on his height because his face is a halo . So to be honest I don’t really feel sorry for you, being a Chadlet doesn’t suck, being an ugly manlet sucks. Count your blessings man, obviously you’re short but being good looking is a gift you should have some gratitude for what you’re given. Get LL for yourself but don’t sit here and complain about the woes of being a good looking short guy when so many people have it far worse.
First of all, I do appreciate your input.
To be honest, it sucks being a so-called manlet no matter how good or bad looking you are. The prejudice on short men is so bad that no matter how attracted a woman might be towards a good looking short guy, she will feel nervous and awkward with him only because of society's standards and trying to fit in those standards all the time. And, believe me, almost all women are trying to fit in those standards set by modern society so they always have doubts when meeting with short guys and, as I mentioned, no matter how attracted she might be towards a good looking short man, unless he has something tangible other than his good looks (mainly money and status) she won't commit to a relationship and reject the idea of being with him.
Only thing that can save a good looking short man is status and money, that way he can get any woman he wants, even Victoria Secret girls as a wife (of course some of them might still reject him but it won't be the majority of them unlike in the case if such a man had no status and money).
Basically, height is a disqualifier for LTRing but not to a same degree for STRs where if a woman finds a man hot, she can fk him nevertheless (i.e. brake the 6 feet minimum height rule for hot short men). But, the odds of her wishing LTRing that man is very low. She might fk him on side regularly if he's good in bed and maintains his good looks throughout years but unless he gets status and money, she won't LTR or marry him.
Most woman don't want to be seen with a short guy in the public, no matter how hot the guy is in her eyes and how bad she wants to fk him. She will do that on the side with him but she won't wish to associate with him in the public as a couple unless he's very famous or wealthy. That's how crippling being short as a man is when you don't have a status and millions of money.
To me, that inadequacy of fulfilling average woman's needs of at least average height if not tall rule for LTRing a man is enough reason to get the surgery and become at least 5'9 and wear lifts to appear even tallish if needed. The odds of women rejecting the idea of LTRing me at that height will lower significantly.
Other way is forgetting LL and gaining status to compete with status & good looks halo as a short man but here comes the other side of the coin: I want to do LL not only because of women but because of me believing that I will look much better and proportional, thus improving body image and psychological well-being. If I didn't give a fk about appearance and only wanted to get women, I would forget this surgery and get the women via maxing out status and money instead.
And, regarding your take where you say that being an ugly manlet is worse than being a good looking one: of course it's worse, there's no doubt about it. But, being a good looking manlet is still not enough for most women and in the end it's almost same, a manlet is a manlet no matter how he looks. Only difference is that a hot manlet can get ONS and FWB type relationships with certain types of women who find him hot enough to fk but other than that, both types of manlets are fked up, no matter if he's ugly or hot. With right status and money, even ugly manlet can get a very hot wife, see Henry Cejudo for example who is 5'2 at best and looks repulsive to women on top of that. His wife is not attainable even for good looking tall guys. Even they need something other than height and looks to bring to the table to such kind of women nowadays if they want her to marry them.
The moral of the story is that unless a good looking short man wants to date down significantly and marry someone ugly and short and reproduce with her, he is fked up otherwise. Only thing that saves a short man (no matter how hot he is) is attaining status, getting tons of money and dating up with model-tier women to reproduce with the best genes possible in order to fix his genetic flaw of short height.
But, if I never wanted to marry and reproduce, I would just fk with random women till my looks and hotness would fade and then I would either castrate myself chemically or pay for prostitutes in my elderly years since no sane girl wants to fk for free with grandpas.
That's my take on this subject.
Quote from: AnotherLLer on July 12, 2024, 09:10:00 PMFirst of all, I do appreciate your input.
To be honest, it sucks being a so-called manlet no matter how good or bad looking you are. The prejudice on short men is so bad that no matter how attracted a woman might be towards a good looking short guy, she will feel nervous and awkward with him only because of society's standards and trying to fit in those standards all the time. And, believe me, almost all women are trying to fit in those standards set by modern society so they always have doubts when meeting with short guys and, as I mentioned, no matter how attracted she might be towards a good looking short man, unless he has something tangible other than his good looks (mainly money and status) she won't commit to a relationship and reject the idea of being with him.
Only thing that can save a good looking short man is status and money, that way he can get any woman he wants, even Victoria Secret girls as a wife (of course some of them might still reject him but it won't be the majority of them unlike in the case if such a man had no status and money).
Basically, height is a disqualifier for LTRing but not to a same degree for STRs where if a woman finds a man hot, she can fk him nevertheless (i.e. brake the 6 feet minimum height rule for hot short men). But, the odds of her wishing LTRing that man is very low. She might fk him on side regularly if he's good in bed and maintains his good looks throughout years but unless he gets status and money, she won't LTR or marry him.
Most woman don't want to be seen with a short guy in the public, no matter how hot the guy is in her eyes and how bad she wants to fk him. She will do that on the side with him but she won't wish to associate with him in the public as a couple unless he's very famous or wealthy. That's how crippling being short as a man is when you don't have a status and millions of money.
To me, that inadequacy of fulfilling average woman's needs of at least average height if not tall rule for LTRing a man is enough reason to get the surgery and become at least 5'9 and wear lifts to appear even tallish if needed. The odds of women rejecting the idea of LTRing me at that height will lower significantly.
Other way is forgetting LL and gaining status to compete with status & good looks halo as a short man but here comes the other side of the coin: I want to do LL not only because of women but because of me believing that I will look much better and proportional, thus improving body image and psychological well-being. If I didn't give a fk about appearance and only wanted to get women, I would forget this surgery and get the women via maxing out status and money instead.
And, regarding your take where you say that being an ugly manlet is worse than being a good looking one: of course it's worse, there's no doubt about it. But, being a good looking manlet is still not enough for most women and in the end it's almost same, a manlet is a manlet no matter how he looks. Only difference is that a hot manlet can get ONS and FWB type relationships with certain types of women who find him hot enough to fk but other than that, both types of manlets are fked up, no matter if he's ugly or hot. With right status and money, even ugly manlet can get a very hot wife, see Henry Cejudo for example who is 5'2 at best and looks repulsive to women on top of that. His wife is not attainable even for good looking tall guys. Even they need something other than height and looks to bring to the table to such kind of women nowadays if they want her to marry them.
The moral of the story is that unless a good looking short man wants to date down significantly and marry someone ugly and short and reproduce with her, he is fked up otherwise. Only thing that saves a short man (no matter how hot he is) is attaining status, getting tons of money and dating up with model-tier women to reproduce with the best genes possible in order to fix his genetic flaw of short height.
But, if I never wanted to marry and reproduce, I would just fk with random women till my looks and hotness would fade and then I would either castrate myself chemically or pay for prostitutes in my elderly years since no sane girl wants to fk for free with grandpas.
That's my take on this subject.
Can I ask if you've ever actually been in an LTR? Where are you getting these ideas from? For me, i am about half an inch taller than you id say im handsome but not Chadlet level, and ive been in multiple LTR's. In my experience its actually the exact opposite of what you're saying, short term relationships are more difficult but girls are more understanding on the looks part when it comes to long term commitment. Your ideas do not resonate not only with my own experiences but with scientific evidence. Please read "Evolution of Desire" by David Buss and it will open your eyes on what women really want from an evolutionary perspective. In the book he describes that when it comes to mate selection, women discriminate highly on looks for STR's, and much less so for LTR's. This scientific information directly confirms my own personal experience. The exact opposite is true for men, men discriminate more highly for LTR's but drop their looks standards for short term flings. If you are getting these ideas not from your own experience but from the internet I'd encourage you to go offline and actually put yourself out there. Find out for yourself whats true and really not true. I think we can both agree 5'5" is a significant disadvantage, and definitely qualifies you to get CLL, but we shouldn't swing things too far and say nothing else really matters, which is also a lie.
Also I'd like to address one last point directly Quote from: AnotherLLer on July 12, 2024, 09:10:00 PM
But, being a good looking manlet is still not enough for most women and in the end it's almost same, a manlet is a manlet no matter how he looks. Only difference is that a hot manlet can get ONS and FWB type relationships with certain types of women who find him hot enough to fk but other than that, both types of manlets are fked up, no matter if he's ugly or hot. With right status and money, even ugly manlet can get a very hot wife, see Henry Cejudo for example who is 5'2 at best and looks repulsive to women on top of that. His wife is not attainable even for good looking tall guys. Even they need something other than height and looks to bring to the table to such kind of women nowadays if they want her to marry them.
Getting ONS and FWB relationships is NOT nothing, many guys would kill for this, so you contradict yourself by saying "almost the same". One man getting short term flings and the other not is the difference between a playboy and an incel. Those two aren't even close to the same thing, the fact that you even say that lends me to believe you do in fact have pretty privilege. Usually its tall people who say height doesn't matter or models who say looks don't, or wealthy people who say money doesn't matter. You can live a great life if you have a stellar face even if you're short.
I was in Thailand for some time and after having so many ONS (with Asian and some European tourists), I've got bored fast and even after returning to Europe I didnt want to try. You can get easily laid if you are at least confident and have good looking body/face even when you are short in Eastern Europe/SEA. I think if someone is really pathetic in relationships (cuck) and is afraid to talk with women that surgery will not help so much. There are many tall freaks that are still virgins at 30 and some shorter people can get more than 10-15sx partners just by playing cards right.
finertoga:
QuoteCan I ask if you've ever actually been in an LTR? Where are you getting these ideas from? For me, i am about half an inch taller than you id say im handsome but not Chadlet level, and ive been in multiple LTR's. In my experience its actually the exact opposite of what you're saying, short term relationships are more difficult but girls are more understanding on the looks part when it comes to long term commitment. Your ideas do not resonate not only with my own experiences but with scientific evidence. Please read "Evolution of Desire" by David Buss and it will open your eyes on what women really want from an evolutionary perspective. In the book he describes that when it comes to mate selection, women discriminate highly on looks for STR's, and much less so for LTR's. This scientific information directly confirms my own personal experience. The exact opposite is true for men, men discriminate more highly for LTR's but drop their looks standards for short term flings. If you are getting these ideas not from your own experience but from the internet I'd encourage you to go offline and actually put yourself out there. Find out for yourself whats true and really not true. I think we can both agree 5'5" is a significant disadvantage, and definitely qualifies you to get CLL, but we shouldn't swing things too far and say nothing else really matters, which is also a lie.
No, I've never been in a serious relationship with girls ever and it was by my choice, not involuntarily. I'm saying this with certainty because girls were simping to me in school & uni years (I'm in my late 20's now) but I never reciprocated with them not because they were ugly and undesirable but because I was mentally retarded to be honest at that time due to avoiding girls and doing childish stuff like gaming and drinking with male friends. I was too childish mentally and even physically up until 25 years of age. Only inexperienced and very young girls were simping to me, not mature ones who are more attracted to masc type guys who are well established and are serious.
Regarding the idea that STRs are more difficult for short GL men rather than LTRs, it mostly comes down what type of guy we're talking about. There are GL short guys who look high trust and easily manipulative in LTR by a woman and there are low trust GL short guys who look like players and are more sexually attractive in a primal way, i.e. they exude sex appeal instead of high trust domestic kitty appeal most women desire nowadays in a man for LTR to easily manipulate them and being safe knowing that he's not viewed by women as a sexy man but rather soft and delicate guy, so they won't fantasize for him for kinky stuff.
There goes the distinction between GL men: one type is an LTR material for safety and the other is more sexual and player type on the surface and in mannerisms / character too. Women sense this and immediately cut ties with non-conforming and sexually attractive guys unless she wants ONS or STR type relationship with him. They want someone GL but conforming type guy on the surface and in character too in order to feel safe that he never cheats and fulfills her demands by manipulating him 24/7.
So, those women who discriminate against looks for ONS and FWB type flings are discriminating against sexual attractiveness, i.e. they want a guy who they think looks hot, not just GL. That's why I'm saying that if women find a short man attractive in sexual way they will fk him unless he's at least 5'5 (lowest normal male height in terms of standard deviations) and has no visible flaws in appearance that might repulse them.
I see many average looking short guys with GFs and wives in the street but unfortunately I'm not the type they wish to LTR. I only get sexual IOIs on social media and IRL from slutty girls and women, i.e. they initiate sexual talking and sending nudes without my explicit request. They add me on Facebook themselves, not me. I just have that kind of face and build that attracts those kind of slutty women unfortunately and I can't change that.
I've tried getting into LTR with 28 years old single (not married in the past) girl recently who was very plain in terms of appearance and character but she rejected at the end of our meeting stating that she didn't feel connection and even mentioned that she rejected her fiancee in the past because he too had problems. I didn't ask what kind of problems I have but IMO it's related to my character and childish behaviors that is incompatible for a serious relationship to a woman. She didn't see me as a stable mate IMO and I just ghosted her the next day, even though she asked me the next day why didn't I text her how did she went home the day I met her, LOL. I never replied to her and she got upset and sent loads of text which I didn't even open, I just archived the chat and she deleted me after 2 weeks of waiting my response, LOL.
I'm not the type of guy who chases girls, no matter how hot she is, I view them at the same level no matter if she's ugly or hottest girl in the world.
As you can see, there's a problem in me in that they don't view me as a stable relationship guy and think of me as someone who never gets tired of flirting with girls and fks on the side so that particular girl didn't want additional headaches and cut ties with me immediately on the spot even though she was looking at me with bright eyes when she said those words to me.
QuoteGetting ONS and FWB relationships is NOT nothing, many guys would kill for this, so you contradict yourself by saying "almost the same". One man getting short term flings and the other not is the difference between a playboy and an incel. Those two aren't even close to the same thing, the fact that you even say that lends me to believe you do in fact have pretty privilege. Usually its tall people who say height doesn't matter or models who say looks don't, or wealthy people who say money doesn't matter. You can live a great life if you have a stellar face even if you're short.
Yes, I understand that it's kinda ironic by my side saying that, I know that playing field is not equal between good looking and bad looking men, even if they're short than average but I wanted to say that in the end, all short men, no matter if he's GL or not have the same fundamental problem being viewed as a less of a man socially by women. They will test them all the time before trying deciding if they enter in an LTR with them and those constant testings won't end even in a formed relationship. Height is something that severely cripples a man in that regard if he wishes to become a serious partner to her, not for STR & FWB.
IMO, it's better being a bit above average height and average looking rather than short and hot as a man because in that case you can enjoy both of worlds, getting in serious relationships with most women not worrying about they reject you because of height and while being in an LTR, enjoy ONS and superficial flings on the side secretly. As a short guy, no matter how hot you are, you're handicapped forming serious relationships with most women you choose and you're forced to either give up on serious relationships and just enjoy casual flings or date up with the help of status and money with some shallow model-tier women and breed with them while giving them everything a woman wants to feel fulfilled in this life, i.e. luxurious and vague lifestyle.
Sometimes I think if it even worth it to have an LTR when knowing that the main reason she's with you as your significant other is because of you possessing status and money. It kinda replaces the lack of height for her in terms that she views you as a trophy like some 6'7 guy in a sense that your SMV is high not because you're tall but you're not a nobody and having you her side is valuable to her, so she doesn't give a fk in that case what other people think about your lack of height. But, if you are a nobody like some random 6'7 guy, you have a significant disadvantage compared to that 6'7 guy because he's at least got height that is seen valuable by most females and some of them might stay with broke 6'7 guy at least temporary until she finds him boring but you can't most of the time. You either increase your SMV through the means of getting status and money or remain doomed in serious relationships, because your acceptance rate for LTR is very low because of not being at least average height.
Quote from: lucindaris on July 12, 2024, 11:13:45 PMI was in Thailand for some time and after having so many ONS (with Asian and some European tourists), I've got bored fast and even after returning to Europe I didnt want to try. You can get easily laid if you are at least confident and have good looking body/face even when you are short in Eastern Europe/SEA. I think if someone is really pathetic in relationships (cuck) and is afraid to talk with women that surgery will not help so much. There are many tall freaks that are still virgins at 30 and some shorter people can get more than 10-15sx partners just by playing cards right.
I know that relocating to SEA is easy mode for most men but it requires that a man should have finances in order. Not everybody can afford tripping and remaining in a foreign country for months while not working there and spending money continuously.
By eastern Europe you mean Slavic countries perhaps. Yeah, as a foreigner they see you something special but unless you're really hot they won't fk with you and won't be around with you. There are some cheap hoes there who will do anything if some foreigner spends money on her by taking her in restaurants, buying her gifts and make her live decent while he remains there but it drains your pocket and, again, requires more money than one needs in cheap SEA countries like in Thai or Vietnam. Also, those girls in SEA are all looking the same, they are mostly short and have no curves and boobs. It's kinda boring there because of lack of variety. At least in eastern Europe you can find all types of women including Asian types, especially in eastern part of Russia.
And, if a woman finds a man hot in eastern Europe and SEA, she will find him hot in west too. It's impossible for such a man to remain sexless in the west as there are loads of hoes there who are partying and fking random guys 10x a day.
But, at least in eastern Europe and SEA you can find a wife material here and there but I believe it's almost impossible nowadays in west. So, in that regard, fishing in the eastern Europe and SEA is a sensible approach at least.
I didnt spend any money for sex directly. Thailand depends on the approach if you go to touristy places you will pay no matter if youare ugly short or handsome tall. In general they are attracted to white males more than those in Europe/N.America.
It's possible to have sxx in the west for sure in some places (clubbing, festivals etc) like you have said but it's not wifre/long term relationship material.
I agree with the last sentence, and I am just saying that even if you lengthen your bones you still need to know how play your cards right with the women. I had sxx with women who asked about my height on the first date, it's doable but obviously i would be more confident to be just average/close to average. Another thing is just to walk on the beach barefoot and not be ashamed to take group photos with other men that's why I am opting to get only one surgery on femurs internals with good doctors and continue my life fater it.
Quote from: lucindaris on July 13, 2024, 11:05:22 AMI didnt spend any money for sex directly. Thailand depends on the approach if you go to touristy places you will pay no matter if youare ugly short or handsome tall. In general they are attracted to white males more than those in Europe/N.America.
It's possible to have sxx in the west for sure in some places (clubbing, festivals etc) like you have said but it's not wifre/long term relationship material.
I agree with the last sentence, and I am just saying that even if you lengthen your bones you still need to know how play your cards right with the women. I had sxx with women who asked about my height on the first date, it's doable but obviously i would be more confident to be just average/close to average. Another thing is just to walk on the beach barefoot and not be ashamed to take group photos with other men that's why I am opting to get only one surgery on femurs internals with good doctors and continue my life fater it.
That's the issue, you spend the money indirectly in order to get sex from them there. That means you need to take them to restaurants, buy gifts and, in general, make them entertained by taking them to various spots in the city and spending money at those places you go together.
Whereas some men can get away with minimal expenses (mostly coffe and taxi fees) to get the sex from the women they meet. If it's a club setting, it's even possible to get away without spending anything. At most it's about a drink or two vodka and that's it, which is still nothing at all in terms of expenses.
The situation gets bad if a man is forced to spend more money for her other than for those things mentioned above. Taking her to restaurants, buying expensive gifts and treating her like a special person whilst you only want sex from her is not good but I understand that some men can't get away without doing this, because, otherwise, they (women) won't spread their legs at them.
That's the reality unfortunately, some men can get away easier and cheaper whilst others need to constantly spend money to women and walk on tip-toes besides her in order not to make her anxious and at the end get sex from her after all those efforts.
Food in thailand costs less than 10 usd for one person at good restaurant and you can get it on first or second date, if you are not stupid. There is a higher chance lady will be a virgin or had 1 sxx partner max unlike those who had 30 body count and some diseases. Plus you are kinda achieving it by your actions not by paying and not by treating her as a queen, but most guys cant do that of course that's why they whine on this forum and this surgery will not help them so much if it's their only goal. Some of the SEA women like to split bills as well if they see you valuable, but i dont care about cucks because they always fail no matter if it's usa, asia or europe. I dont even how people can get boner with prostitutes but it's the case if you had normal girls before and know it's just a downgrade.
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