can you lose eye sight from LL?

Member

Posts: 404

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 26, 2021, 1:44 pm

#11

I read it but idk why I had the feeling that he meant 4% rate of complication for FA,PE and DVT meaning that all together had a 4 % not just FE.
Anyway , FE seems to be 4% , DVT 1% , but what about the more concerning PE?
He does not mention the % of it and the deaths we know from LL are both from PE .
Paley it's a salesman (also a great surgeon) so I wonder if he is hiding that number on porpuse in order to not lose /scare perspective patients .

Like (0)

B

bloggerdude

Member

Posts: 332

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 26, 2021, 2:16 pm

#12

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 26, 2021, 01:44:15 PMI read it but idk why I had the feeling that he meant 4% rate of complication for FA,PE and DVT meaning that all together had a 4 % not just FE.
Anyway , FE seems to be 4% , DVT 1% , but what about the more concerning PE?
He does not mention the % of it and the deaths we know from LL are both from PE .
Paley it's a salesman (also a great surgeon) so I wonder if he is hiding that number on porpuse in order to not lose /scare perspective patients .

At least he has listed something. most doctors don't even have this numbers.

PE happens only after DVT so the number must be much smaller than 1%. Like 0.1% or something.

but fat embolism leading to vision impairment is most scary.

Like (0)

M

Masteryourlife

Member

Posts: 290

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 26, 2021, 8:36 pm

#13

Quote from: bloggerdude on December 26, 2021, 02:16:12 PMAt least he has listed something. most doctors don't even have this numbers.

PE happens only after DVT so the number must be much smaller than 1%. Like 0.1% or something.

but fat embolism leading to vision impairment is most scary.

So FE is more common then PE ? Wow from what I heard/read it looked the other way.
Btw I read the story of the guy with dr.D but not to attack anyone but there are few members here that suffered from other problems then pure height .
One panicked for everything and was depressed before and after LL etc.
No one ever mentioned this problem besides that diary so idk man ..we should be carefull because sometimes u feel symptoms that they don't exist or were there before too but u just look for them after such a big surgery .
Even nose filler can cause lose of ur eye function and it happened but...the odds ?
I am not the type of guy to say "this surgery is risky deal with it" but ppl forget that any other Cosmetic surgery/treatment have risks and LL have severe ones like future walking etc. But as far as PE/FE they can happen with other surgeries too or simple fractures or traumas surgery and so with the problematic u are bringing it which is legit and scary .
I believe u should try to understand if u can live without this surgery and the height it brings to u ; if the answear is no you are just worrying about something u will eventually end up doing/accepting down the line .
I learned it the hard way by trying to find alternatives and forget about it .

Like (0)

V

Verumontanum

Member

Posts: 156

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 26, 2021, 8:59 pm

#14

4th year medical student here

This is something known in the literature as Purtscher's retinopathy.

It is rare; there is no good data on the absolute risk, but based on the anecdotal evidence, it is not common enough to be of paramount concern.
You have to have Fat Embolisation Syndrome (FES) to get Purtscher's. In other words, the fat has to go into the systemic circulation and reach the vasculature supplying the eye (not only the retina). However, it is unlikely that fat per se is the only culprit of causing ischemia because you need other things to form a sufficient enough clot to block all blood.
Acutely, most patients are visually asymptomatic.
If you are concerned about FES and the sequalae involved, I would highly recommend you do the following:

1. DO NOT VAPE OR SMOKE AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE SURGERY
2. When medical staff are not around and you are resting post-op, monitor yourself for the following signs/symptoms: dyspnea (difficulty breathing), tachypnea (breathing fast aka shortness of breath), hypoxemia or low oxygen presence in blood (as measured by a pulse oximeter; there will be a pulse-ox on you after your surgery, just make sure it's on your finger and measuring your oxygen appropriately. Anything below 90% is alarming)
3. Do not excessively research rare conditions as this will only add fear and anxiety

**You are most likely to get FES 24 to 72 hours after surgery**

Also, please be wary of case reports in the literature as these are often only published if they are unusual outcomes and exceedingly rare events. This is not to say that they are not clinically valuable; just don't hang your hat up on something you read in a case report.

Sources:
https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/2398519
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21532048/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8766666/

Edit Post

4th year medical student here

This is something known in the literature as Purtscher's retinopathy.

It is rare; there is no good data on the absolute risk, but based on the anecdotal evidence, it is not common enough to be of paramount concern.
You have to have Fat Embolisation Syndrome (FES) to get Purtscher's. In other words, the fat has to go into the systemic circulation and reach the vasculature supplying the eye (not only the retina). However, it is unlikely that fat per se is the only culprit of causing ischemia because you need other things to form a sufficient enough clot to block all blood.
Acutely, most patients are visually asymptomatic.
If you are concerned about FES and the sequalae involved, I would highly recommend you do the following:

1. DO NOT VAPE OR SMOKE AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE SURGERY
2. When medical staff are not around and you are resting post-op, monitor yourself for the following signs/symptoms: dyspnea (difficulty breathing), tachypnea (breathing fast aka shortness of breath), hypoxemia or low oxygen presence in blood (as measured by a pulse oximeter; there will be a pulse-ox on you after your surgery, just make sure it's on your finger and measuring your oxygen appropriately. Anything below 90% is alarming)
3. Do not excessively research rare conditions as this will only add fear and anxiety

**You are most likely to get FES 24 to 72 hours after surgery**

Also, please be wary of case reports in the literature as these are often only published if they are unusual outcomes and exceedingly rare events. This is not to say that they are not clinically valuable; just don't hang your hat up on something you read in a case report.

Sources:
https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/2398519
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21532048/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8766666/

Like (0)

B

bloggerdude

Member

Posts: 369

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 27, 2021, 7:02 am

#15

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 26, 2021, 08:36:20 PMSo FE is more common then PE ? Wow from what I heard/read it looked the other way.
Btw I read the story of the guy with dr.D but not to attack anyone but there are few members here that suffered from other problems then pure height .
One panicked for everything and was depressed before and after LL etc.
No one ever mentioned this problem besides that diary so idk man ..we should be carefull because sometimes u feel symptoms that they don't exist or were there before too but u just look for them after such a big surgery .
Even nose filler can cause lose of ur eye function and it happened but...the odds ?
I am not the type of guy to say "this surgery is risky deal with it" but ppl forget that any other Cosmetic surgery/treatment have risks and LL have severe ones like future walking etc. But as far as PE/FE they can happen with other surgeries too or simple fractures or traumas surgery and so with the problematic u are bringing it which is legit and scary .
I believe u should try to understand if u can live without this surgery and the height it brings to u ; if the answear is no you are just worrying about something u will eventually end up doing/accepting down the line .
I learned it the hard way by trying to find alternatives and forget about it .

So in the worst case scenario, if LL is NOT an option for you (hypothetically speaking). What will you do? Seriously.

Fillers is a good question. We should do some research and find how many documented cases exist. I read in a paper that in 2015 there were 98 documented cases of this but I do not know how many people got fillers in total to calculate the risk.

Edit Post

Quote from: Masteryourlife on December 26, 2021, 08:36:20 PMSo FE is more common then PE ? Wow from what I heard/read it looked the other way.
Btw I read the story of the guy with dr.D but not to attack anyone but there are few members here that suffered from other problems then pure height .
One panicked for everything and was depressed before and after LL etc.
No one ever mentioned this problem besides that diary so idk man ..we should be carefull because sometimes u feel symptoms that they don't exist or were there before too but u just look for them after such a big surgery .
Even nose filler can cause lose of ur eye function and it happened but...the odds ?
I am not the type of guy to say "this surgery is risky deal with it" but ppl forget that any other Cosmetic surgery/treatment have risks and LL have severe ones like future walking etc. But as far as PE/FE they can happen with other surgeries too or simple fractures or traumas surgery and so with the problematic u are bringing it which is legit and scary .
I believe u should try to understand if u can live without this surgery and the height it brings to u ; if the answear is no you are just worrying about something u will eventually end up doing/accepting down the line .
I learned it the hard way by trying to find alternatives and forget about it .

So in the worst case scenario, if LL is NOT an option for you (hypothetically speaking). What will you do? Seriously.

Fillers is a good question. We should do some research and find how many documented cases exist. I read in a paper that in 2015 there were 98 documented cases of this but I do not know how many people got fillers in total to calculate the risk.

Like (0)

B

bloggerdude

Member

Posts: 355

Joined: Dec 2021

Posted on Dec 27, 2021, 7:09 am

#16

Quote from: Verumontanum on December 26, 2021, 08:59:59 PM4th year medical student here

This is something known in the literature as Purtscher's retinopathy.

It is rare; there is no good data on the absolute risk, but based on the anecdotal evidence, it is not common enough to be of paramount concern.
You have to have Fat Embolisation Syndrome (FES) to get Purtscher's. In other words, the fat has to go into the systemic circulation and reach the vasculature supplying the eye (not only the retina). However, it is unlikely that fat per se is the only culprit of causing ischemia because you need other things to form a sufficient enough clot to block all blood.
Acutely, most patients are visually asymptomatic.
If you are concerned about FES and the sequalae involved, I would highly recommend you do the following:

1. DO NOT VAPE OR SMOKE AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE SURGERY
2. When medical staff are not around and you are resting post-op, monitor yourself for the following signs/symptoms: dyspnea (difficulty breathing), tachypnea (breathing fast aka shortness of breath), hypoxemia or low oxygen presence in blood (as measured by a pulse oximeter; there will be a pulse-ox on you after your surgery, just make sure it's on your finger and measuring your oxygen appropriately. Anything below 90% is alarming)
3. Do not excessively research rare conditions as this will only add fear and anxiety

**You are most likely to get FES 24 to 72 hours after surgery**

Also, please be wary of case reports in the literature as these are often only published if they are unusual outcomes and exceedingly rare events. This is not to say that they are not clinically valuable; just don't hang your hat up on something you read in a case report.

Sources:
https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/2398519
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21532048/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8766666/

THANK YOU so much for writing this!!

I wish we had some data on this and how many people end up with vision impairment after FES.

As for informing medical staff, there is not much that can be done to save vision isn't it? They can only help you oxygenate. But they can't do anything about stuff blocking blood supply to the eyes. even with facial fillers if there is vision impairment they say it cant be reversed.
Agreed though that it's still important to inform them to save your life.

Edit Post

Quote from: Verumontanum on December 26, 2021, 08:59:59 PM4th year medical student here

This is something known in the literature as Purtscher's retinopathy.

It is rare; there is no good data on the absolute risk, but based on the anecdotal evidence, it is not common enough to be of paramount concern.
You have to have Fat Embolisation Syndrome (FES) to get Purtscher's. In other words, the fat has to go into the systemic circulation and reach the vasculature supplying the eye (not only the retina). However, it is unlikely that fat per se is the only culprit of causing ischemia because you need other things to form a sufficient enough clot to block all blood.
Acutely, most patients are visually asymptomatic.
If you are concerned about FES and the sequalae involved, I would highly recommend you do the following:

1. DO NOT VAPE OR SMOKE AT LEAST 2 WEEKS BEFORE SURGERY
2. When medical staff are not around and you are resting post-op, monitor yourself for the following signs/symptoms: dyspnea (difficulty breathing), tachypnea (breathing fast aka shortness of breath), hypoxemia or low oxygen presence in blood (as measured by a pulse oximeter; there will be a pulse-ox on you after your surgery, just make sure it's on your finger and measuring your oxygen appropriately. Anything below 90% is alarming)
3. Do not excessively research rare conditions as this will only add fear and anxiety

**You are most likely to get FES 24 to 72 hours after surgery**

Also, please be wary of case reports in the literature as these are often only published if they are unusual outcomes and exceedingly rare events. This is not to say that they are not clinically valuable; just don't hang your hat up on something you read in a case report.

Sources:
https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/2398519
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21532048/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8766666/

THANK YOU so much for writing this!!

I wish we had some data on this and how many people end up with vision impairment after FES.

As for informing medical staff, there is not much that can be done to save vision isn't it? They can only help you oxygenate. But they can't do anything about stuff blocking blood supply to the eyes. even with facial fillers if there is vision impairment they say it cant be reversed.
Agreed though that it's still important to inform them to save your life.

Like (0)

C

c

Member

Posts: 171

Joined: Aug 2017

Posted on Dec 27, 2021, 7:15 am

#17

4% 纯属瞎说，100个人做4个人有栓塞，那要死多少人，怎么可能几率这么高

Like (0)

M

Masteryourlife

Member

Posts: 189

Joined: Nov 2021

Posted on Dec 27, 2021, 2:29 pm

#18

Quote from: bloggerdude on December 27, 2021, 07:02:39 AMSo in the worst case scenario, if LL is NOT an option for you (hypothetically speaking). What will you do? Seriously.

Fillers is a good question. We should do some research and find how many documented cases exist. I read in a paper that in 2015 there were 98 documented cases of this but I do not know how many people got fillers in total to calculate the risk.

Fillers can't even be counted because they do thousands and thousands a day worldwide so the % is low but it exist for a "stupid" procedure like that .
I think you got my point .

When I developed my dysphoria I was aware of why that was happening and it was atrocious, so I looked just for something to escape that feeling and that thing was the surgery .
Back then I was not into it but just wanted to know that If I wanted it , I could change my height .
I was very young and this surgery it's too much to just jump on without years of mental prep (according to me) .
So what would I do?
Idk I should go back 5/6 years and see .
I tried it all back then to avoid this surgery by contacting weirdows with weird theories ,to making x Ray's left and right hoping for opening growth plates .
Researched for growth plates ,stem cells etc.
I realized I was very vulnerable as a person and out of my mind .
When I found the price of the surgery first thing I said was .." maybe I can start playing the lottery , maybe I win and I can effort this" and I was serious about that .
My mind was burned out and there I decided to embrace the surgery and don't be stupid and childish .
If the surgery wasn't an option ,by now idk but back then I would have suffered a sever depression and probably I wouldn't be the same today .
When you desire something this much and the world takes it from you , it's like someone s u love death , but in this case it's your soul dying inside.
So I would have not been suicidal but I probably would have been really really depressed and I would not be the confident guy I am today (besides height).
I want LL to be the best of my self not to compensate others areas of my life .
You seem not sure so my suggestion for you would be to improve yourself in any scenario you can think of .
Clothing,body,attitude,hairs etc. Take care of yourself and push your current self to the max of its ability .
I used to model and I still do (rarely lately tho because of my dysphoria ) for world renowned brands ,mostly for their website pages and/or underwears so I know how to take care of my self and I know what I am talking about ; it's a world of a difference and you will receive more attentions,girls and opportunities .
My reason to get this surgery even if I am avarage height and good looking etc. Its because I feel like I've been cheated because for 2 inches more I would have had a whole different career .
Not only for that , but I feel it's so unfair that for those 2 stupid inches I have to feel like this in many scenarios where I deserve way more !
It does not matter how many beautiful girls I can or can't have ,its about me and not feeling like I need to ask or beg just because I have it all but I am missing 2 stupid inches that if you draw a line in a wall they are NOTHING .
I don't want to feel like someone is doing me a favor for hiring me ,marrying me or loving me just because I am not the ideal height when I have it all on any other aspect .
I know others don't think it that way but it is how I feel and I want this s**t out of my head so I can love and enjoy with my mind free .Period.
So if surgery was not an option I would be depressed and a worst person on many aspects , but it is so I made the best with what I had in order to make the surgery the cherry on top,not the beginning of my changing journey .
Sorry for the very long answear but I feel the more details in our experience can help everyone decide and understand their feelings better as well.

Edit Post

Quote from: bloggerdude on December 27, 2021, 07:02:39 AMSo in the worst case scenario, if LL is NOT an option for you (hypothetically speaking). What will you do? Seriously.

Fillers is a good question. We should do some research and find how many documented cases exist. I read in a paper that in 2015 there were 98 documented cases of this but I do not know how many people got fillers in total to calculate the risk.

Fillers can't even be counted because they do thousands and thousands a day worldwide so the % is low but it exist for a "stupid" procedure like that .
I think you got my point .

When I developed my dysphoria I was aware of why that was happening and it was atrocious, so I looked just for something to escape that feeling and that thing was the surgery .
Back then I was not into it but just wanted to know that If I wanted it , I could change my height .
I was very young and this surgery it's too much to just jump on without years of mental prep (according to me) .
So what would I do?
Idk I should go back 5/6 years and see .
I tried it all back then to avoid this surgery by contacting weirdows with weird theories ,to making x Ray's left and right hoping for opening growth plates .
Researched for growth plates ,stem cells etc.
I realized I was very vulnerable as a person and out of my mind .
When I found the price of the surgery first thing I said was .." maybe I can start playing the lottery , maybe I win and I can effort this" and I was serious about that .
My mind was burned out and there I decided to embrace the surgery and don't be stupid and childish .
If the surgery wasn't an option ,by now idk but back then I would have suffered a sever depression and probably I wouldn't be the same today .
When you desire something this much and the world takes it from you , it's like someone s u love death , but in this case it's your soul dying inside.
So I would have not been suicidal but I probably would have been really really depressed and I would not be the confident guy I am today (besides height).
I want LL to be the best of my self not to compensate others areas of my life .
You seem not sure so my suggestion for you would be to improve yourself in any scenario you can think of .
Clothing,body,attitude,hairs etc. Take care of yourself and push your current self to the max of its ability .
I used to model and I still do (rarely lately tho because of my dysphoria ) for world renowned brands ,mostly for their website pages and/or underwears so I know how to take care of my self and I know what I am talking about ; it's a world of a difference and you will receive more attentions,girls and opportunities .
My reason to get this surgery even if I am avarage height and good looking etc. Its because I feel like I've been cheated because for 2 inches more I would have had a whole different career .
Not only for that , but I feel it's so unfair that for those 2 stupid inches I have to feel like this in many scenarios where I deserve way more !
It does not matter how many beautiful girls I can or can't have ,its about me and not feeling like I need to ask or beg just because I have it all but I am missing 2 stupid inches that if you draw a line in a wall they are NOTHING .
I don't want to feel like someone is doing me a favor for hiring me ,marrying me or loving me just because I am not the ideal height when I have it all on any other aspect .
I know others don't think it that way but it is how I feel and I want this s**t out of my head so I can love and enjoy with my mind free .Period.
So if surgery was not an option I would be depressed and a worst person on many aspects , but it is so I made the best with what I had in order to make the surgery the cherry on top,not the beginning of my changing journey .
Sorry for the very long answear but I feel the more details in our experience can help everyone decide and understand their feelings better as well.

Like (0)

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Edit Post

Related Topics