Quote from: short on February 19, 2020, 02:55:24 AMmuscles aren't the problem, tendons are!
I second that! Tendons get much tighter than muscles. Stretching will be your best friend as well as staying within safe limits according to the doctor's consult recommendations
Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on February 19, 2020, 02:25:18 AMYou need to read more studies - the body grows extra soft issues, it doesn't just elongate what you have. It's similar to weight lifting, where you break the muscle fibers and then new ones grow. Otherwise even 6cm on the femurs would be too much.
Remember that some dwarfs do 15-20cm on one limb - that would be impossible without growing new soft tissue.
Ummm NO dwarf does 20cm in one segment and functions even remotely close to normal. And also I’ve looked at a ton of studies and I’ve never heard of anyone doing 20cm on a segment wtf That’s a lie.
It’s not impossible you’re simply stretching the body past its limits that’s why people be in pain.
Also soft tissue is NOT naturally grown . Any extra soft tissue that is produced usually brings fear of cancerous becuase that’s what happens majority of time.
What studies can you provide that more soft tissue is created as we lengthen. Enlighten me. Becuase as I stated I’m reading studies and not just shooting out large numbers of cm just becuase I want to be taller.
I want to be taller , and functioning at the most normal level there is. And world class doctors provided the range for that already and the safest seems to be under 7cm femurs under 6cm tibias regardless of how long nails stretch.
Now people can and WILL go over the limit. And I guess they’ll either disappear or become one of the posters of knee and leg pain and unable to do half the things they could before.
No thanks to that.
Quote from: cam007 on February 19, 2020, 08:20:52 AMAlso soft tissue is NOT naturally grown . Any extra soft tissue that is produced usually brings fear of cancerous becuase that’s what happens majority of time.
You're absolutely wrong. The body produces new muscle. Otherwise we (people that actually did LL) would be crippled. It takes some time, that's why it takes months to recover our athletic ability.
Quote from: cam007 on February 19, 2020, 08:20:52 AMWhat studies can you provide that more soft tissue is created as we lengthen. Enlighten me. Becuase as I stated I’m reading studies and not just shooting out large numbers of cm just becuase I want to be taller.
I won't do your homework for you. Enough to say that there is plenty of academic papers about this online. Check some studies done in dogs and rabbits.
I would have NEVER done LL if that wasn't the case (that LL produces new muscle tissue). Before I did my LL in 2012 I read almost every single academic paper from the most well known LL specialists at the time. LL creates new muscle, period.
Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on February 19, 2020, 09:06:01 AMYou're absolutely wrong. The body produces new muscle. Otherwise we (people that actually did LL) would be crippled. It takes some time, that's why it takes months to recover our athletic ability.
I won't do your homework for you. Enough to say that there is plenty of academic papers about this online. Check some studies done in dogs and rabbits.
I would have NEVER done LL if that wasn't the case (that LL produces new muscle tissue). Before I did my LL in 2012 I read almost every single academic paper from the most well known LL specialists at the time. LL creates new muscle, period.
I hate people who are ignorant and quick to try to reply . YOU’RE making a claim To MY comment. I asked you to prove your theory. I didn’t ask you to do any hw for me. I literally stated I read studies. So Congrats I also did my “hw” . Nonetheless I stated soft tissue does not grow, and I’m not particularly wrong as the majority doesnt. Most soft tissue expansions shone in studies have been declared as mass / or cancerous in almost all that I’ve seen.
NONETHELESS You focused on muscles In your reply . I never even mentioned muscles as being an issue but everything else. And it seems others have mention muscles not even being a real problem ( and I haven’t heard of that being a problem either) outside of waste from externals.
So idk what point you’re trying to make. But if you want to go hard and then tell others to “do their hw” you probably shouldn’t reply.
So... If I stretch my ears they will become cancerous? 
Quote from: Polvorón on February 19, 2020, 01:21:57 PMSo... If I stretch my ears they will become cancerous?
Idk dude last I check (depending on area ) the ear is cartilage. :shrugS:
You are always welcome to try on yourself and come back with reports if you want lol.
Quote from: cam007 on February 19, 2020, 12:42:54 AMBro I HIGHLY disagree with your last comment. If you go in with an “anything less” is dissatisfaction. You’re looking at it wrong. It should be looked at - basically what cyborg stated.
What’s the most gain with MINIMAL complications. And it seems the majority TOP doctors who are well respected and in ANY country , state 7cm femurs and 6 tibia as MAX. Which means it’s pushing it. Regardless of how far the nail can go.
So if you want that 3 in height. An internal rod on femurs technically goes to 8. You do the 7.5cm there and you’d be okay BUT the safest distance area apparently based on studies was 6.5cm on femurs and 5cm on tibia. It doesn’t make sense to get a height just to be crippled and disabled.
Pay attn to a lot of REAL diaries on here. Everyone past 7cm has BIG issues. Under 6cm had issues but was EASILY rectified/restore to within 90% or more of pre -ll.
I think you need to focus on how to get to 5’10.5 SAFELY. And not let these forums hype you up. B/c a lot of ppl hyping you ain’t even done a consult yet lol.
Be easy. And hope you safely get what you want
Can you share the data around femur > 7 cm is high risk of big issues? I recently did 8 cm on femurs at Paley, and met several other patients who did the same, and I think 8 cm on femur with a healthy recovery (at or near pre LL athletic ability) is very much possible. This is in the context of the average adult, not individuals who are world class athletes who make a living off of competitive sports......the average guy or gal who walks daily, may go for a casual jog or run, may play a light pickup game of b ball every so often, etc.......
There are a lot of other factors at play, for example, the patients starting height. I would argue that a taller guy like myself (starting height 5'9) doing 8 cm, has the same, or even less risk, than a shorter guy (e.g. starting height 5'4) who is doing 7 cm femurs simply based on relative length %.
Overall, I agree with your message that LLers should balance and optimize height gains and functionality, but I don't think its as simple as saying > 7 cm = big issues, there are many variables at play (e.g. starting height, age, muscle mass, natural flexibility, lifestyle, etc.)
Quote from: cam007 on February 19, 2020, 10:18:19 AMI hate people who are ignorant and quick to try to reply . YOU’RE making a claim To MY comment. I asked you to prove your theory.
Don't be retarded. it's not my theory. It's something well observed in different studies. It's not my fault that you are so dumb that you can't find those studies with google. You can literally find them in the FIRST page of google search if you search correctly.
Quote from: cam007 on February 19, 2020, 10:18:19 AMI didn’t ask you to do any hw for me. I literally stated I read studies. So Congrats I also did my “hw” . Nonetheless I stated soft tissue does not grow, and I’m not particularly wrong as the majority doesnt. Most soft tissue expansions shone in studies have been declared as mass / or cancerous in almost all that I’ve seen.
Nops, again you are TOTALLY wrong. Stop spreading this nonsense here.
Getting back to your original question--is it possible to do one segment (tibias or femurs) at some point in time after you lengthen the other segment.
Of course.
Please note that when persons talk about "centimeters" for safe lengthening, these people are generally misguided. There is no set "centimeters" of lengthening considered safe because each person's leg segment length is not the same.
Consequently, the correct way to talk about lengthening is as a percentage of segment length. It is almost universally considered that lengthening 10% of the length of the segment is safe.
If your tibia is 40 cm; then, it is generally considered safe to lengthen it by 4 cm.
That is not to say that a greater percentage of lengthening cannot be successfully achieved; however, the risk rate for complications also increases. Most reputable surgeons are OK with 15% if 10% is achieved without complications.
After 15%; then, you are into a case-by-case scenario.
Like you, I did not want to lengthen another segment if I could get enough length in one segment. I was able to get to 24% and feel that I hit an absolute maximum for my segment. However, because I pushed things this way, my recovery time was long and the process is slow but I am getting it done without any significant complications.
If you decide to do a second segment; then, you should know that your ability to lengthen the second segment is diminished because the first lengthening stretches your entire leg. Consequently, the same amount of stretch is not available for the second segment. Waiting in time for the second segment can help you get some of your stretch back but your second surgery cannot ever be as stretchy as your first surgery.
Quote from: California2 on February 19, 2020, 04:13:24 PMGetting back to your original question--is it possible to do one segment (tibias or femurs) at some point in time after you lengthen the other segment.
Of course.
Please note that when persons talk about "centimeters" for safe lengthening, these people are generally misguided. There is no set "centimeters" of lengthening considered safe because each person's leg segment length is not the same.
Consequently, the correct way to talk about lengthening is as a percentage of segment length. It is almost universally considered that lengthening 10% of the length of the segment is safe.
If your tibia is 40 cm; then, it is generally considered safe to lengthen it by 4 cm.
That is not to say that a greater percentage of lengthening cannot be successfully achieved; however, the risk rate for complications also increases. Most reputable surgeons are OK with 15% if 10% is achieved without complications.
After 15%; then, you are into a case-by-case scenario.
Like you, I did not want to lengthen another segment if I could get enough length in one segment. I was able to get to 24% and feel that I hit an absolute maximum for my segment. However, because I pushed things this way, my recovery time was long and the process is slow but I am getting it done without any significant complications.
If you decide to do a second segment; then, you should know that your ability to lengthen the second segment is diminished because the first lengthening stretches your entire leg. Consequently, the same amount of stretch is not available for the second segment. Waiting in time for the second segment can help you get some of your stretch back but your second surgery cannot ever be as stretchy as your first surgery.
Exactly .
10% to be about the safest and 15% at the most. Universally.
Majority of people in the forum are under 5’8 so it’s
Imposible thst a 7-8cm per seg is within safe limits .
But as you said a lot of people go over that and say becuase we can. On the outer we can. And the body will heal it as much as it can. But the LTR are evident.
My question to you (whether you want to or not or care to ) - can you do everything pre LL within 85-95 range of what you could do before.
That’s what I want to know , Becuase all studies say athletic ability significantly drops when past the 15% upper limit of safe zone and persistent complications exist after.
Have you healed differently?
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