Starting second LL(femurs) with Dr Buldu

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Hi fiveten

What is your wingspan and sitting height?

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http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg66494#msg66494
i think i dint mention it on the post..but i had it on my profile stats/bio long back.

its 170cm winspan, and 90/91cm sitting height.

i recalled this number as i had then used these stats for emails with other doctors i was then seaeching. i basically had a large upepr body and small legs to begin with lol, you could check my original proportions in the photo attached a few posts above

http://imgur.com/a/Vbcpv6c

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Quote from: fivetenneeded2016 on November 21, 2021, 10:27:38 PMhttp://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg66494#msg66494
i think i dint mention it on the post..but i had it on my profile stats/bio long back.

its 170cm winspan, and 90/91cm sitting height.

i recalled this number as i had then used these stats for emails with other doctors i was then seaeching. i basically had a large upepr body and small legs to begin with lol, you could check my original proportions in the photo attached a few posts above

http://imgur.com/a/Vbcpv6c

That is an insane sitting height for starting height of 159cm most guys starting at that short have way less sitting height. How does your torso look in relation to your legs now?

Armspan sound like it could be an issue as average man has wingspan 2 inches over their height so at current stats your around 16cm away from average. Are you planning to do arm lengthening?

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Quote from: Highest on November 21, 2021, 10:49:56 PMThat is an insane sitting height for starting height of 159cm most guys starting at that short have way less sitting height. How does your torso look in relation to your legs now?

Armspan sound like it could be an issue as average man has wingspan 2 inches over their height so at current stats your around 16cm away from average. Are you planning to do arm lengthening?
i would post my proportions in a month or two's time so my legs look more natural..they are atrophied at the moment. it would still look good, as i said i had huge upper body for my height then.. if you saw my pic i mentioned, you'd agree too. i would not do arm lengthening lol. i dont need lol.

besides there was also another guy on the old forum t.dot/6sixside whose proportions, old height and lengthening amount was like mine..he did it with betz though

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Quote from: fivetenneeded2016 on November 21, 2021, 10:56:58 PMi would post my proportions in a month or two's time so my legs look more natural..they are atrophied at the moment. it would still look good, as i said i had huge upper body for my height then.. if you saw my pic i mentioned, you'd agree too. i would not do arm lengthening lol. i dont need lol.

Glad your feeling good. I think 22cm has to be one of the highest amounts recorded. I'm sure your aware most docs recommend max 5cm tibia and 8cm femur. It would be great health wise if you could check back in a year or so to say how your going. It must have been incredibly mentally exhausting.

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Quote from: Highest on November 21, 2021, 11:01:49 PMGlad your feeling good. I think 22cm has to be one of the highest amounts recorded. I'm sure your aware most docs recommend max 5cm tibia and 8cm femur. It would be great health wise if you could check back in a year or so to say how your going. It must have been incredibly mentally exhausting.

catagni is worlds best(he trained paley)..most of his patients do atl..therefore they reach 9/10cm without much difficulty..i would trust catagni over any other doc for tibias..he is perhaps worlds best for pure ilizarov..even paley commends him..

for femurs, if you use repeated small/avg lengthening with rest, there is no reason why you would limit. your soft tissues would recover with time too..pili suggested me this idea..i would habe gone to him if he had precise in feb 2021. he even said i could have done 14cm(i have the call recording too lol) if i did it in the staged way.

i trust pili and ctagani more than anyone..i did well after second surgery, and i cant wait for 3-4 months to gain my results back

if you were on the old forum...the dual lengtheners often did 18-20cm with betz .. doing less is no doubt safe, but doing more is also safe if you do it right dont be scared or put down by people who dictate limits- it depends a lot on how you lengthen, how fast you lengthen, body type a lot of factors which people dont talk about ..they only say the numbers..just 3 years back on this forum..6cm was max limit or may be 7..now you see its 8 on femurs always lol.

again, by no means i suggest people to do maxmimum..its only for those who still have a hard time to get it off their head to reach a goal(isnt that exactly whats BDD?) Majority of people wouldnt want this limit..they dont have BDD..they say they want to get tall, but just for a better dating life..BDD IS WHEN YOU WANT TO REACH THAT NUMBER coz you percieve yourself that way

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Quote from: fivetenneeded2016 on November 21, 2021, 11:05:50 PMcatagni is worlds best(he trained paley)..most of his patients do atl..therefore they reach 9/10cm without much difficulty..i would trust catagni over any other doc for tibias..he is perhaps worlds best for pure ilizarov..even paley commends him..

for femurs, if you use repeated small/avg lengthening with rest, there is no reason why you would limit. your soft tissues would recover with time too..pili suggested me this idea..i would habe gone to him if he had precise in feb 2021. he even said i could have done 14cm(i have the call recording too lol) if i did it in the staged way.

i trust pili and ctagani more than anyone..i did well after second surgery, and i cant wait for 3-4 months to gain my results back

if you were on the old forum...the dual lengtheners often did 18-20cm with betz .. doing less is no doubt safe, but doing more is also safe if you do it right dont be scared or put down by people who dictate limits- it depends a lot on how you lengthen, how fast you lengthen, body type a lot of factors which people dont talk about ..they only say the numbers..just 3 years back on this forum..6cm was max limit or may be 7..now you see its 8 on femurs always lol.

again, by no means i suggest people to do maxmimum..its only for those who still have a hard time to get it off their head to reach a goal(isnt that exactly whats BDD?) Majority of people wouldnt want this limit..they dont have BDD..they say they want to get tall, but just for a better dating life..BDD IS WHEN YOU WANT TO REACH THAT NUMBER coz you percieve yourself that way

This is a very interesting conversation. IIRC Paley set the limit of the precise family of nails at 8cm due to problems increasing dramatically over that amount on femurs according to a presentation he did. The 5cm tibia limit seemed to come about again due to Paley not allowing patients over that amount. So it does appear very Paley dominated.

I assume you did ATL with Catagni which is another highly polarising procedure with most doctors swearing against it and wanting to do the strayer procedure instead while Catagni and I believe Pili also recommending ATL over 4-5cm tibia lengthenings.

Would you be able to discuss the various release and soft tissue procedures you've had and the doctors opinions on them?

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Quote from: Highest on November 21, 2021, 11:19:52 PMThis is a very interesting conversation. IIRC Paley set the limit of the precise family of nails at 8cm due to problems increasing dramatically over that amount on femurs according to a presentation he did. The 5cm tibia limit seemed to come about again due to Paley not allowing patients over that amount. So it does appear very Paley dominated.

I assume you did ATL with Catagni which is another highly polarising procedure with most doctors swearing against it and wanting to do the strayer procedure instead while Catagni and I believe Pili also recommending ATL over 4-5cm tibia lengthenings.

Would you be able to discuss the various release and soft tissue procedures you've had and the doctors opinions on them?

paley made the limit as 8 coz more than 8 is difficult as you mentioend..BUT ITS FOR ONE LENGTHENING- IN ONE GO. if you do it after you recover, you still can do it again

about ATL..there is a user who voices out his opinions a lot and calls everything a "joke". He did his release after he lengthened..so his achilles is quite weak..may be the release wasnt good..that guy dint even reveal his doc name yet. i wouldnt say he was wrong about going against atl, but he has created the hype that atl would ruin you..do it right with the right doc, and DURING LENGTHENING, the chances are you should be fine.


As an experiement(for those who blindly trust paley)- please someone mail paley that they are doing the surgery under catagni and he recommends ATL halfway in the procedure.. Paley always replies to most emails i have heard..so Get his thoughts and post it here with the screenshot

I did my ATL at 50% of my lengthening. My achilles did get tight again to create the tension after i reached my goal on tibias. I still can jump high enough, but honestly i never measured my vertical jump elevation prior or even now, but i am good enough to carry on my daily routines. I wasnt a pro-sportsman.

Catagni does a lot of corrective procedures..mainly corrective infact..so i am sure he prioritizes safety first too..if you trust these users over catagni, i would judge your judgement lol.

your point about other doctors not using atl. see my posts, and check my frame..the frame was custom to hold thr ATL device. Most docs dont do ilizarov coz its brutal and inconvinient for the 21st centuary..safe but brutal. Definitely no one used HEF, may be hexapod, not no one uses HEF..HEF frame was perhaps designed to accomodate the ATL device.

my pain with atl for that 40 days was crazy though. the most painful thing i have done..i have a good pain tolerancr and patience too.

I was 16 months on it lol..if i did my next surgery, i would redo my femurs, no way tibias. I wouldnt want an im nail through my knee(thats more dangerous than the atl i had with my doc lol)

about the other soft tissue- IT band is routine for any doc who does femurs. atleast it should be

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Quote from: fivetenneeded2016 on November 21, 2021, 11:26:56 PMpaley made the limit as 8 coz more than 8 is difficult as you mentioend..BUT ITS FOR ONE LENGTHENING- IN ONE GO. if you do it after you recover, you still can do it again

about ATL..there is a user who voices out his opinions a lot and calls everything a "joke". He did his release after he lengthened..so his achilles is quite weak..may be the release wasnt good..that guy dint even reveal his doc name yet. i wouldnt say he was wrong about going against atl, but he has created the hype that atl would ruin you..do it right with the right doc, and DURING LENGTHENING, the chances are you should be fine.


As an experiement(for those who blindly trust paley)- please someone mail paley that they are doing the surgery under catagni and he recommends ATL halfway in the procedure.. Paley always replies to most emails i have heard..so Get his thoughts and post it here with the screenshot

I did my ATL at 50% of my lengthening. My achilles did get tight again to create the tension after i reached my goal on tibias. I still can jump high enough, but honestly i never measured my vertical jump elevation prior or even now, but i am good enough to carry on my daily routines. I wasnt a pro-sportsman.

Catagni does a lot of corrective procedures..mainly corrective infact..so i am sure he prioritizes safety first too..if you trust these users over catagni, i would judge your judgement lol.

your point about other doctors not using atl. see my posts, and check my frame..the frame was custom to hold thr ATL device. Most docs dont do ilizarov coz its brutal and inconvinient for the 21st centuary..safe but brutal. Definitely no one used HEF, may be hexapod, not no one uses HEF..HEF frame was perhaps designed to accomodate the ATL device.

my pain with atl for that 40 days was crazy though. the most painful thing i have done..i have a good pain tolerancr and patience too.

I was 16 months on it lol..if i did my next surgery, i would redo my femurs, no way tibias. I wouldnt want an im nail through my knee(thats more dangerous than the atl i had with my doc lol)

about the other soft tissue- IT band is routine for any doc who does femurs. atleast it should be

I think your referring to the user bodybuilder. There are alot of variables between you and him to make any fair comparison on if ATL has negative long term implications. Knowing the difference between doing ATL during or after is the first I've ever seen on the forum and why your case is so helpful. Can you expand on the pain of ATL are you saying it is the most painful part of LL and what makes it so painful?

This is next level LL topic as most people don't even do 2 LL let alone on same segment! Sort of OT but where did you get so much time to spend on LL!?

Agree on IT band release. Did you have and faciotomy on your Tibias yet? This appears to be another common release for those going over 5cm.

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Quote from: Highest on November 22, 2021, 12:40:41 AMI think your referring to the user bodybuilder. There are alot of variables between you and him to make any fair comparison on if ATL has negative long term implications. Knowing the difference between doing ATL during or after is the first I've ever seen on the forum and why your case is so helpful. Can you expand on the pain of ATL are you saying it is the most painful part of LL and what makes it so painful?

This is next level LL topic as most people don't even do 2 LL let alone on same segment! Sort of OT but where did you get so much time to spend on LL!?

Agree on IT band release. Did you have and faciotomy on your Tibias yet? This appears to be another common release for those going over 5cm.
if you really think about how people with dwarfism get over with 30+cm. two things:
1. flexible soft tissues: but come on, given their original length, i think they would still max out at 10cm- which is am equivalent of 15cm for a non dwarf person.
2. repeated lengthening- same segments again- in case of IM nail, its like you were about to remove, but instead you get a new nail in and rebreak..its lesser trauma too.

the second reason caught my eye. Like i had told you about the guichet patient who did 3cm(the guy was a doctor) and he recovered in 1.5 months and planned to rebreak. there are also more guichet paitents- simons(i mentioend him in my tibias journey, i saw him in person in milan) and christall.

How much time i took to recover from femur part 1(first 6cm) - feb 27 to may 31.. say 3 months..3 months is not a big deal to gain a quick 6cm. its going to be the same this time too- so i recoken by the new years 2022, I should be walking well enough.

Specially to those who have seen the benefits of getting closer to their goal and who have recovered well and fast and who know what they are doing.. it would be a routine jump out of the tunnel- the only reason i did it thrice at all.

precice made it easier for me

note: 3 months is just for walking normally- i waited till end of september only to get the hamstring flexion(my cruical bottle neck) back. My bone heals quite quick(you could see my previous surgery xrays too).

so total i would have spend 3months each time if i did hypothetically again too..which isnt so bad- its the rehab for a bigger fracture too. not very suspicious either. thats how i get the time.

also come on, I was 16 months on ilizarov. i do have patience grounded down to my balls lol.

i dont have any other release/tightness. just the it band/achilles. perhaps i was skinny to begin with(the more suited body type for lengthening).


Lengthening a lot is by no means bad..its only lengthening fast and giving less gaps between surgeries that kills your soft tissues..Thats why people have the most to lose who do quadrilateral..I bet they cannot reach 16cm(maxing out both nails) like myevolution

its a trade off time vs the length you give..i gave in just too much time from my first surgery to attain my goal. most people i have met just want to finish it up soon and move on with life- which is the right approach mentally, but you can only do so much so quick!