Isn't it just body dysmorphia at the end of the day?

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Quote from: Body Builder on March 13, 2024, 08:58:00 AMExactly that.
Real bodybdysmorphia have only more than average height men who are not ok with their heights. Not a short man that society disrespect in all circumstances and the only way to be seen as equal is LL.
I kinda think OP confuses body dysphoria with body dysmorphia. The former describes a state in which the patient is suffering from the mental issues caused by being short/fatty etc., while the latter describes a state in which the patient is still doing so while being slightly or even not flawed body-wise.

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Quote from: LG1816 on March 10, 2024, 06:07:48 PM The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.
Realizing you have a condition, in that case, short stature, finding a way of correcting it and proceeding with it is not a disordered way of thinking.
A disordered way of thinking would be realizing you have a condition that doesn't please you, obsessing about it but not doing anything to solve it.

Also, the problem of BDD and cosmetic surgeries is when you never stop. There are people who will have endless surgeries because they will never be happy with their appearance and end up looking freaks. A 5'7" man who undergoes surgery to be average height, 5'9", and stops there isn't comparable to surgery freaks.

That's not to say that people can't be happy and live fulfilling lives being short and not undergoing LL. It's a choice.

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Most will call it crazy because an overwhelming majority of them thinks you wouldn't be able to walk or get disabled in exchange for 3 extra inches of height + the surgery itself costs a minimum of 50k+ and 4 months of recovery so 99% of people wouldn't be able to afford it.

Usually lot of the hate that comes after getting LL isn't fueled by concerns/sympathy but jealously. I remember a dwarf getting 1ft+ LL and posting her experience/result on reddit. She got like 30k+ upvotes with almost all of them being very supportive/positive comments - this is because even if a dwarf gets LL they will still be taller than her, but do you know which community brandished her for getting the surgery? The dwarf community. This is because her height change effects their communities status quo and gives the idea of " If she can do it why can't I?" - but as you know this surgery is almost  inaccessible for the majority of people out there due the financial, emotional, and physical investment required.

Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".

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Quote from: JJ299 on March 14, 2024, 02:47:52 PM
Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".

It's this. It's average guys not wanting height to become a surgery fueled arms race.

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Quote from: JJ299 on March 14, 2024, 02:47:52 PMMost will call it crazy because an overwhelming majority of them thinks you wouldn't be able to walk or get disabled in exchange for 3 extra inches of height + the surgery itself costs a minimum of 50k+ and 4 months of recovery so 99% of people wouldn't be able to afford it.

Usually lot of the hate that comes after getting LL isn't fueled by concerns/sympathy but jealously. I remember a dwarf getting 1ft+ LL and posting her experience/result on reddit. She got like 30k+ upvotes with almost all of them being very supportive/positive comments - this is because even if a dwarf gets LL they will still be taller than her, but do you know which community brandished her for getting the surgery? The dwarf community. This is because her height change effects their communities status quo and gives the idea of " If she can do it why can't I?" - but as you know this surgery is almost  inaccessible for the majority of people out there due the financial, emotional, and physical investment required.

Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".
I think you pretty much nailed it. It's particularly prevalent in the short men community where it's filled with insecure guys that spend their lives doing steroids and lifting, wearing lifts, getting tattoo sleeves, trying to look more manly. Then suddenly some guy does a surgery and is instantly more attractive than them.
Then they lash out with "One leg kick and it's over for you", "do you know what girls hate more than short men? Insecure men" etc. On Instagram you have them making fun of LeTremba, Eric Cohen and other guys who did it at Turkey.

Also, about the costs, I think they're a little overrated. At least if you live in a developed country. 50k is about the price of a nice car. Or like a year of renting a small apartment in NYC. The main problem is that if you work a physical job you will not be able work for a long time but if you work a desk job or remote it isn't that big of a deal. If you save 1k USD a month, you will have enough money to do it in a cheaper country in a couple of years. That's saving a little over 30 USD a day, maybe an extra hour of work or two if you don't make minimum wage.

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Quote from: Temoc on March 14, 2024, 03:16:44 PMI think you pretty much nailed it. It's particularly prevalent in the short men community where it's filled with insecure guys that spend their lives doing steroids and lifting, wearing lifts, getting tattoo sleeves, trying to look more manly. Then suddenly some guy does a surgery and is instantly more attractive than them.
Then they lash out with "One leg kick and it's over for you", "do you know what girls hate more than short men? Insecure men" etc. On Instagram you have them making fun of LeTremba, Eric Cohen and other guys who did it at Turkey.

Also, about the costs, I think they're a little overrated. At least if you live in a developed country. 50k is about the price of a nice car. Or like a year of renting a small apartment in NYC. The main problem is that if you work a physical job you will not be able work for a long time but if you work a desk job or remote it isn't that big of a deal. If you save 1k USD a month, you will have enough money to do it in a cheaper country in a couple of years. That's saving a little over 30 USD a day, maybe an extra hour of work or two if you don't make minimum wage.
It's just one of human's natures, that when you get better than them they will get jealous and say sour-graped stuffs like so what you are gonna be a cripple in years or else. I think this thing also happens for a hot woman who does surgeries to become hot. Other girls get jealous because she suddenly becomes hotter than them and they say 'So what? Your face will be fked up in years and if you don't find a fine man your children will suffer a lot because your genes are still trashy, if you want to have children'

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Quote from: NailedLegs on March 10, 2024, 11:20:30 PMAcceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.
But surely to 'cope' implies that it's affecting you in the first place. My point is, that there are plenty of people who seem to not have their height affect them even if they're short; they're confident enough in themselves that whilst they recognize they're short, it isn't the all-consuming, life-ruining thing that it is for many of us here. So they're not coping, their mindset is different -- their assessment of reality is different. If this is as objective as we say, why aren't all short men experiencing horrible lives because of it?

I don't deny it's objective in the sense that being taller is an undeniably positive characteristic, but I don't really think the absolute objective reality is that if you're short, you have a worse life and are therefore 'coping' with that reality. If this is the case, then surely it's all more mindset than it is about the physical issue.

QuoteMost Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)
Well, I'm talking about surgeons who are actually very experienced with using intramedullary rods -- I mean, that's many orthopedic surgeons bread-and-butter as medical professionals who deal with trauma and deformity correction. Is that really irrelevant? I don't think it would be in any other area of medicine. There are barely any doctors who do this cosmetically, and the consensus within the orthopedic community -- the experts -- is that this is pretty much unanimously a bad idea. That's not nothing, surely. I don't necessarily think that just because it can be done safely, it's a given that it's morally acceptable. I'm not saying it isn't, but I think the whole issue of limb lengthening is much more of a gray area than people claim to admit.

Quote"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time-intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which affects tall people too.
I agree, but that's not what I was talking about. I was using it as an example to ask where this line of thinking ends. If it was well within sanity to fix any objective flaw, where do you draw the line? Was Michael Jackson justified in his decision to alter his face how he did? You could say that, given the prevalence of racism and the skew of Western beauty standards, he was objectively in the right mind to make himself as caucasian as possible.

QuoteExactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners
Are infections always solved by antibiotics, though? The theoretical risk of amputation is a tough pill to swallow.

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Quote from: Sorcerer on March 13, 2024, 01:17:57 PMI kinda think OP confuses body dysphoria with body dysmorphia. The former describes a state in which the patient is suffering from the mental issues caused by being short/fatty etc., while the latter describes a state in which the patient is still doing so while being slightly or even not flawed body-wise.

I think the two have become more difficult to distinguish because height as an attractive quality has become so much more of a prevalent talking point. The modern-day narrative is that you're short if you're 5'9 -- that anything under the average height of 5'10 is short. Then you've got this supposed sliding scale of benefits going up to about 6'4, so you have short men just wanting to be average, and then average men feel inferior compared to the tall guys who are deemed to have all the success. Obviously, it's worse for the genuinely short guy, but my point is that 'short' seems to be changing -- not physically, but in the eyes of this generation.

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Quote from: oklama on March 12, 2024, 05:53:42 AMthe term body dysmorphia implies its a mental issue i.e "in your head"

there are documented, studied, and obvious major drawbacks to being ACTUALLY short (below 5'7/5'8 in USA).

I think this is somewhat of a misconception. It's more that you have an immense preocupation with a flaw, not that the flaw doesn't exist.

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Quote from: NailedLegs on March 10, 2024, 11:20:30 PMAcceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you.

This is fundamentally untrue. How we carry ourselves and what energy we bring out has a lot to do how people treat us. To say that it doesn't matter is equally ignorant as to say that height doesn't matter. Both affect the final equation.

Many people here seem to be against the other aspects besides leg lengthening, which to me is very strange if your true honest goal is to improve your life. Leg lengthening will do a lot for sure based on people's positive experiences, but you don't have to be against self-work, confidence, therapy etc to be positively advocating LL. Many people obsessed with height and LL keep saying that acceptance is cope. To me it actually sounds very dismissive towards those who choose to "cope".

Prince coped pretty well for being around 5'2". People will say, oh that's because he was rich, successful superstar. But he was short, sexy, confident and beautiful before he was any of those other things. He had insecurity about his height, I mean he was truly short. But he sure coped well, much better than most six footers out there.

I'm all for leg lengthening for those who want it, and I'm somewhat considering it myself too. And I'm not trying to deny how society generally views and treats short men. But just saying, those who cope well and live happy, successful lives, deserve more than people saying "he was just coping". And of all people, it is the short men out here calling them "copers". Of all people you would think short people would have empathy and respect for those who go through all that with the disadvantage they have and beat the odds.

Just my opinion of course.