Effect of LL on muscles, blood vessels and nerves

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Quote from: raymond on March 21, 2021, 06:43:57 AMThank you so much maximize.

As for your worry about misalignment, it's a fixable problem. Down the line if you develop problems, fixing alignment is far easier than LL. There are procedures like HTO which have quicker recovery time than LL. No one enjoys surgery but misalignment pertains to bones which can be fixed.

The problems caused due to stretching if any are fundamental and not something reversible even with shortening. With shortening the problem is, blood vessels might have adapted well to the new length but not muscles, so when you shorten, muscles would be happy but blood vessels would not be since they would have grown.

The same way you argue that even if muscles don't regenerate you would be like a less flexible person, I would argue that even if your alignment isn't perfect after LL you would like those people who don't have perfect alignment but get by just fine. Look around and you will see people with bow legs, knock knees, mild length discrepancy and not everyone tries to get them fixed. My alignment is not perfect to begin with, so LL might even make it more theoretically correct for example.

Yes that's true people tolerate misalignments but not so easily as they get older and the wear and tear builds. Eventually the joints fall apart for lots of us either way though and we need joint replacements. In theory LL can fix as well as cause misalignments if done correctly.

You really have nothing to worry about with the blood vessels. You can worry about nerve injury from rapid stretching if your flexibility is not exceptional before. You can worry about reduced muscle power from stretching and perhaps not multiplying or truly adapting muscle. Those are minor issues unless you're an athlete though. If you just want to walk and feel normal, in my opinion, getting the alignment right is more important, and it's a game of millimeters.

You ever do any home improvement work or build any furniture? The saws and screws they use in joint surgery aren't really any fancier. Just sterile. When you're building a cabinet or mounting something in your bathroom and it's off on one end by a few mm you won't really care. But if it's your leg you have to stand on every day it's a bit more important you'll find.

Revision surgery is never desirable and won't be pursued unless there's a massive problem. Most small errors you'll just have to live with. Easier when your toilet roll holder isn't perfectly straight. Harder when it's your joint.

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I found Donghoon Lee's video on this topic



According to him:

- regenerated bone is identical to original bone and there is no scar tissue
- with muscles, there is scar tissue and the regenerated muscle is not exactly normal. This is where you can lose some abilities
- with nerves, they grow back (not clear if identical to original state) and if you don't create any damage during surgery or during lengthening you should be fine
- with blood vessels, he seems to say that as long as during surgery they are not damaged, they should be fine. He says lengthening does not affect blood vessels

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Honestly I'm quite surprised people get this surgery without knowing these basics and that many doctors don't admit these things (like how muscles don't regenerate without scar tissue). Doctors seem to focus on explaining what "could" go wrong and how the doctor would avoid that but not what "would" definitely go wrong even when it's done right. In this case I am referring to how muscles don't fully regenerate.

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Quote from: raymond on March 21, 2021, 08:32:51 PMI found Donghoon Lee's video on this topic



According to him:

- regenerated bone is identical to original bone and there is no scar tissue
- with muscles, there is scar tissue and the regenerated muscle is not exactly normal. This is where you can lose some abilities
- with nerves, they grow back (not clear if identical to original state) and if you don't create any damage during surgery or during lengthening you should be fine
- with blood vessels, he seems to say that as long as during surgery they are not damaged, they should be fine. He says lengthening does not affect blood vessels

Thanks for the video, addresses a crucial part of limb lengthening surgery. There's life right after the surgery, but also life long term after the surgery. And you better know what happens to your body.

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this makes me think leg length surgery is some kinda pseudo science. no one knows what happens but the legs "look ok" after its done so surgeons say its safe.

Its crazy they offer this in America and   no one can answer what happens anatomically when  bone is lengthened.  I have been telling people that every tissue is created as before but from reading this   thread  there is  NO evidence. all a bunch of surveys asking patient satisfaction. I think its safe to say this should be attempted only by people with severe mental illness and even with these unknowns its still better for their overall wellbeing. but for normal people who want a "boost" or enhanchment its not a great idea.

why dont doctors study this stuff? is it that theyre afraid that the results will be unfavorable and they will lose their jobs??

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Quote from: las vegas baby on March 24, 2021, 08:51:16 AMthis makes me think leg length surgery is some kinda pseudo science. no one knows what happens but the legs "look ok" after its done so surgeons say its safe.

Its crazy they offer this in America and   no one can answer what happens anatomically when  bone is lengthened.  I have been telling people that every tissue is created as before but from reading this   thread  there is  NO evidence. all a bunch of surveys asking patient satisfaction. I think its safe to say this should be attempted only by people with severe mental illness and even with these unknowns its still better for their overall wellbeing. but for normal people who want a "boost" or enhanchment its not a great idea.

why dont doctors study this stuff? is it that theyre afraid that the results will be unfavorable and they will lose their jobs??

Limb lengthening has been around since the 50's not only for cosemtic reasons but for all sorts of discrepancies and deformities- There is a lot of research available so stop being paranoid.

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Quote from: las vegas baby on March 24, 2021, 08:51:16 AMthis makes me think leg length surgery is some kinda pseudo science. no one knows what happens but the legs "look ok" after its done so surgeons say its safe.

Its crazy they offer this in America and   no one can answer what happens anatomically when  bone is lengthened.  I have been telling people that every tissue is created as before but from reading this   thread  there is  NO evidence. all a bunch of surveys asking patient satisfaction. I think its safe to say this should be attempted only by people with severe mental illness and even with these unknowns its still better for their overall wellbeing. but for normal people who want a "boost" or enhanchment its not a great idea.

why dont doctors study this stuff? is it that theyre afraid that the results will be unfavorable and they will lose their jobs??

I say everyone should stick to modest amounts of lengthening and completely avoid a second surgery altogether unless it's crucial. Does not take a genius to realise that doing 5cm is safer than doing 7cm and it makes the world of a difference.

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Quote from: raymond on March 21, 2021, 08:32:51 PMI found Donghoon Lee's video on this topic



According to him:

- regenerated bone is identical to original bone and there is no scar tissue
- with muscles, there is scar tissue and the regenerated muscle is not exactly normal. This is where you can lose some abilities
- with nerves, they grow back (not clear if identical to original state) and if you don't create any damage during surgery or during lengthening you should be fine
- with blood vessels, he seems to say that as long as during surgery they are not damaged, they should be fine. He says lengthening does not affect blood vessels

One of the few doctors with a no bullcrap toleration attitude, if only everyone was like him and warned future patients about the possible complications then there would be less people getting it done and regretting it later.

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Quote from: raymond on March 21, 2021, 08:32:51 PMI found Donghoon Lee's video on this topic



According to him:

- regenerated bone is identical to original bone and there is no scar tissue
- with muscles, there is scar tissue and the regenerated muscle is not exactly normal. This is where you can lose some abilities
- with nerves, they grow back (not clear if identical to original state) and if you don't create any damage during surgery or during lengthening you should be fine
- with blood vessels, he seems to say that as long as during surgery they are not damaged, they should be fine. He says lengthening does not affect blood vessels

Do we have some more information on what ramifications there are for the grown muscle to be scar tissue? Does it just mean that it's lesser quality muscle or does it have other ramifications in the future?

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From one of the videos Paley made about a year ago he talked about them focusing a lot on creating smarter and smaller lengthening mechanisms.

It will be interesting to see if they are able to create devices that lengthen at smarter rates whether it will give better results on nerve and muscle tissue in LL.

Like right now when you lengthen, it is in instant steps of ~0.3 mm in one second. Three times a day to achieve ~1 mm per day. This causes an instant large spike of pressure on the muscles / nerves. If we can keep this pressure lower, by lengthening slower but constantly, maybe during sleeping or something similar, it might minimize long term damage to soft tissue.