Scheduled for nail removal + honest feelings on LL

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Quote from: Microbe on March 19, 2018, 01:34:18 AMI'm scheduled to remove my bilateral PRECICE 2 rods in the next several weeks. I won't disclose my doctor, country,age and height.
Frankly I feel absolutely fkn terrified, more so than the initial LL surgery. I guess the reason for this was that I was looking forward to the increase in height and I didn't really mind having the additional surgery to remove the rods, kinda dismissed it. Now the additional surgery/trauma to remove the rods feels nerve racking and making me quite depressed to have this procedure in the first place. Funny how views change over time. Pre-op I felt suicidal over my height and preoccupied with height and now height doesn't really bother me but this whole fukn additional trauma seems like a burden. My atheletic ability has decreased, get pain in my left leg after workouts, long walks or standing. I can't exactly pinpoint where the pain starts but it would gradually increase in intensity after feeling of tightness, despite me being quite flexible to begin with. The pain would  affect my whole left leg (including the lower leg and left hip). My surgery went well with slightly moderate lengthening, but I'm assuming it could be symptoms of arthritis which I accepted as a possible consequence pre-op. Although I must admit having possible arthritis within the 20-30 age range is fukn devastating. I'll be getting this confirmed when I have an examination with the doctor. I'd like to make people aware to really think hard about getting this surgery, ideal candidate would be a person who absolutely occupied with height and feels there's no way to continue living, with only two options: LL or suicide. That was the situation with me and I basically risked everything for get those few centimetres. Hence why I didn't really think about the additional nail removal at that time. Anything could happen with this surgery so plan for the worst case scenario. Don't blindly accept that everything will go alright with LL, I had this operation with a well reputed LL surgeon.   

I can't understamd why you are so pessimistic.
Nail removal is not a hard surgery and yes it will be painful for a few days but after about a months you'll be completely painless and better than you are now.

And finally, if your bone alignment is good and taken in mind that you havent lengthened too much, oremature arthritis is not very possible, but yes, we risk a bigger danger than a normal person who never did LL.
But I think you should become more optimist. Never thinking about height again and never suffer from social drawbacks that short men face (which are small to huge the shorter you are) is more important for me than risking premature arthritis some time which still can be fixed in a major degree.

I hope your surgery will be successful and move on thinking more positive..

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Quote from: myloginacct on March 19, 2018, 04:04:55 AMWas there a point where you felt everything became harder during the lengthening, like above a certain centimeter?

I may lower my lengthening goals after seeing so many of the problems people have here.

0-2 cm = Extremely painful (required medication routinely)
2-5 cm = Relatively easier but still painful
5-6 = Thigh muscles started getting tighter, especially quads. Physio involving quads was a complete torture.
So overall the "middle" phase of the LL process was relatively easier. Low lengthening goals is a smart choice.

Quote from: CaptainAmerica on March 19, 2018, 04:25:54 AMI hate the fact that a lot of past LL'ers leave the forum and never return... In the diaries you see after the surgery they talk about losing a lot of athletic ability and feeling some form of leg pain, but then they leave and never come back to tell you if it was resolved. I've yet to hear one glowing, positive review of this whole thing.. Yeah there was Virtruvian man or whatever but he honestly seemed way too friendly with Paley...

There is always a negative, and it seems like there always will be, no matter internal, external, top doctor, low doctor, etc... You just can't mess with the biomechanics of the legs so harshly and expect to be fine.

I'm going into it fully expecting the worse, I expect to move like a damn grandpa-young Forrest Gump (when he had to wear those braces) for the rest of my life and probably will be incapable of walking more than 10 miles a day without feeling pain, that's probably going to be the reality. As long as I don't feel constant knee pain at all times (even without walking, just resting), that's fine. That's my biggest concert.

I think alot of them just move on with their lives and don't like to think about height and LL in general. I'll be honest but I do think that being in LL forums will further fuel height neurosis, even after successful CLL surgeries. I, for example, would be considered average on the global height scale, yet reading some of the topics will bring back insecurities. So yeah most LL veterans just move on and don't look back at where they started from. However I do understand your point of prospective CLL patients being frustrated of never hearing from the veterans, I was in that exact same situation as you. Some veterans may also choose not to continue posting on forums due to negative outcomes and fear of repercussions from doctors and members.
For me, I have mixed emotions with the CLL outcome so far. That 6cm has boost my confidence tremendously, despite still being below average in my country. A boost in self esteem has made me feel and appear better. No longer wearing those uncomfortable shoe inserts and walking barefeet is now possible without too much thoughts into height. However the negative consequence so far is the pain that is associated with the left leg and the possibility of being arthritis or some other chronic condition that maybe due to CLL itself. Medication does settle the pain so I do see a bit of positive there, but risk of the pain increasing over time and requiring stronger medication dose or medication no longer working is extremely disconcerting.
Quote from: Body Builder on March 19, 2018, 12:00:01 PMI can't understamd why you are so pessimistic.
Nail removal is not a hard surgery and yes it will be painful for a few days but after about a months you'll be completely painless and better than you are now.

And finally, if your bone alignment is good and taken in mind that you havent lengthened too much, oremature arthritis is not very possible, but yes, we risk a bigger danger than a normal person who never did LL.
But I think you should become more optimist. Never thinking about height again and never suffer from social drawbacks that short men face (which are small to huge the shorter you are) is more important for me than risking premature arthritis some time which still can be fixed in a major degree.

I hope your surgery will be successful and move on thinking more positive..

Thanks Bodybuilder for the encouraging post and the well wishes! Yeah I try to be positive and I'm hoping that the nail removal itself would decrease or remove the pain altogether. But I'll admit that news of some underlying chronic condition like arthritis is what's getting me upset, and perhaps assuming that it's arthritis is making me prepared for the worst case scenario. Otherwise I'm really happy for my new height and the boost in esteem.

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I can understand CLL forums fueling height neurosis. Discussions about ideal height is common, and you see plenty of guys going through CLL with a starting height that's higher than yours. Sometimes you have to log out and count your blessings. Take /r/short, you'd think it's a subreddit about short people supporting each other, but it's mostly a miserable pity party (there's a reason /r/averageheight doesn't exist -- nothing to talk about).

I agree with Body Builder too, nail removal is no big deal compared to what you've gone through. You'll be walking unassisted in a day, even if a little sore.

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Ideal height is 6'3, the average in the Philippines nowadays. If you're shorter than that, women won't even look at you, and you'll never get raises or promotions, much less a job.

Sarcasm aside, yeah. If you have or ever had height neurosis, stay away from places full of incels and incel-types who like to post stupid stories and memes about it. I know personally it's hard, but your height doesn't have to be everything in your life.

I posted this image in another thread, and I'll post it again here:



Grieg was significantly under the average for his location, familial wealth and ancestry (Norway), but that did not stop him from anything. With some types we have on the internet today, some people would have told him nasty things ("kill yourself") about himself due to his height.

Never stopped him from anything.

Him and his wife (guess who was taller).

Quote from: Microbe on March 19, 2018, 03:08:02 PM0-2 cm = Extremely painful (required medication routinely)
2-5 cm = Relatively easier but still painful
5-6 = Thigh muscles started getting tighter, especially quads. Physio involving quads was a complete torture.
So overall the "middle" phase of the LL process was relatively easier. Low lengthening goals is a smart choice.

Thank you, Microbe. I will keep 5cm as the most I'd do, and I will try to be content with less than that.

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Quote from: myloginacct on March 19, 2018, 05:05:23 PMIdeal height is 6'3, the average in the Philippines nowadays. If you're shorter than that, women won't even look at you, and you'll never get raises or promotions, much less a job.

Sarcasm aside, yeah. If you have or ever had height neurosis, stay away from places full of incels and incel-types who like to post stupid stories and memes about it. I know personally it's hard, but your height doesn't have to be everything in your life.

I posted this image in another thread, and I'll post it again here:



Grieg was significantly under the average for his location, familial wealth and ancestry (Norway), but that did not stop him from anything. With some types we have on the internet today, some people would have told him nasty things ("kill yourself") about himself due to his height.

Never stopped him from anything.

Him and his wife (guess who was taller).

Thank you, Microbe. I will keep 5cm as the most I'd do, and I will try to be content with less than that.

Quote from: Android on March 19, 2018, 04:47:52 PMI can understand CLL forums fueling height neurosis. Discussions about ideal height is common, and you see plenty of guys going through CLL with a starting height that's higher than yours. Sometimes you have to log out and count your blessings. Take /r/short, you'd think it's a subreddit about short people supporting each other, but it's mostly a miserable pity party (there's a reason /r/averageheight doesn't exist -- nothing to talk about).

I agree with Body Builder too, nail removal is no big deal compared to what you've gone through. You'll be walking unassisted in a day, even if a little sore.

My social life was nearly non-existent prior CLL. I was too preoccupied with height and how people would negatively view me as a person. This constant perception of myself and few remarks of my height from people led me to live a life as an almost recluse, "modern day hermit" or the term "hikikomori". I would hardly go out of the house, lost touch with many friends and the only time I left my house was to get food, grocery shopping, university etc... One of the strongest factors for getting CLL in the first place is to attract the opposite sxx, mainly true with males. Lurking in these forums, alongside with reddit and so called "scientific websites" etc...I was conditioned to believe that a male must be over "so and so" height to attract females...However after my post-CLL, I was extremely (and I mean EXTREMELY!) surprised at how people shorter than me were dating very beautiful women. In fact, some of the women were slightly taller than the men (note:I live in one of the top 5 tallest countries for males). This made me question the "shiit " that people read on these sites. Yes I do believe that being taller will make life more comfortable and easy, however one should not go into thinking "X height is required/mandatory into getting a perfect partner, job" whatever these sites make you believe. My advice is not to lurk around the social aspects on this forum and stay away short people reddit. Majority of them are filled with depressed people or just trolls that get a temporary boost by feeding on the insecurities of short people. Purely concentrate on the medical aspect of CLL and keep on asking yourself whether those few cm's will truly change your life. Reflecting back, I wish I had stayed away from these short reddits, forums and the off topic section from these LL forums and enjoyed life during my younger days since many short people that I've known after my CLL have proven my former thoughts wrong. Android and myloginacct I wish you all the best on your journey to becoming more happy. 

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Ha, yes! I am totally inside my apartment all the time if I don't get invited by friends to do anything.

I don't attribute this to my height of course; I had an upbringing in which I kept moving around and losing friends, so I learned to entertain myself. I'm also quite frugal, so that also plays a role too. Leaving the house feels like a chore after a while; the internet has made my hikikomori lifestyle much more convenient.

But I do actually have a great time once I leave the house. Got plans this weekend, so pretty pumped about that. Hopefully I can be more outgoing in the near future.

To wrap up, if I'm going to be a hermit, I'd rather be a taller hermit.

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Quote from: Microbe on March 19, 2018, 07:37:00 PMMy social life was nearly non-existent prior CLL. I was too preoccupied with height and how people would negatively view me as a person. This constant perception of myself and few remarks of my height from people led me to live a life as an almost recluse, "modern day hermit" or the term "hikikomori". I would hardly go out of the house, lost touch with many friends and the only time I left my house was to get food, grocery shopping, university etc... One of the strongest factors for getting CLL in the first place is to attract the opposite sxx, mainly true with males. Lurking in these forums, alongside with reddit and so called "scientific websites" etc...I was conditioned to believe that a male must be over "so and so" height to attract females...However after my post-CLL, I was extremely (and I mean EXTREMELY!) surprised at how people shorter than me were dating very beautiful women. In fact, some of the women were slightly taller than the men (note:I live in one of the top 5 tallest countries for males). This made me question the "shiit " that people read on these sites. Yes I do believe that being taller will make life more comfortable and easy, however one should not go into thinking "X height is required/mandatory into getting a perfect partner, job" whatever these sites make you believe. My advice is not to lurk around the social aspects on this forum and stay away short people reddit. Majority of them are filled with depressed people or just trolls that get a temporary boost by feeding on the insecurities of short people. Purely concentrate on the medical aspect of CLL and keep on asking yourself whether those few cm's will truly change your life. Reflecting back, I wish I had stayed away from these short reddits, forums and the off topic section from these LL forums and enjoyed life during my younger days since many short people that I've known after my CLL have proven my former thoughts wrong. Android and myloginacct I wish you all the best on your journey to becoming more happy.

I've told this story here before, but my most successful friend with women is around 166cm. His friends are all over 180cm.

All the people who think "you need to be X height to 'get' women" tend to think of women as objects, and not people, so they do tend to do rather poorly in that aspect of life. Which is not to say height is not important (we are here after all; we've read some studies), but there's always two sides to a coin.

Pains from CLL aside, I hope you're living a happier life now, Microbe. Considering you've mentioned you live in one of the tallest countries in the world, you were probably not that short to begin with. Enjoy being tall or above average now when you travel outside of Europe and North America!

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Quote from: myloginacct on March 19, 2018, 11:18:26 PMI've told this story here before, but my most successful friend with women is around 166cm. His friends are all over 180cm.

Haha this guys sounds exactly like a friend of mine. Similar height, great down to earth personality and very humble, yet he manages to attract women that are taller than him. Just an overall charismatic person.   

Quote from: myloginacct on March 19, 2018, 11:18:26 PMAll the people who think "you need to be X height to 'get' women" tend to think of women as objects, and not people, so they do tend to do rather poorly in that aspect of life. Which is not to say height is not important (we are here after all; we've read some studies), but there's always two sides to a coin.

I guess the same can be said for women that say a men has to be of "X" height. 
Quote from: myloginacct on March 19, 2018, 11:18:26 PMPains from CLL aside, I hope you're living a happier life now, Microbe. Considering you've mentioned you live in one of the tallest countries in the world, you were probably not that short to begin with. Enjoy being tall or above average now when you travel outside of Europe and North America!

I'm in the 5'7-5'8 range in a country where the average is around 5'11 lol. Even though the difference may appear large, I don't feel too short at all and I've never been called short after my CLL. It is common to see people around the same height as me or slightly taller and I could blend into crowds without appearing too short. 

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Quote from: Microbe on March 20, 2018, 02:13:55 AM
Haha this guys sounds exactly like a friend of mine. Similar height, great down to earth personality and very humble, yet he manages to attract women that are taller than him. Just an overall charismatic person.

Charisma, intelligence and empathy go a reaaaally long way if you're looking for relationships and not just trying to "score" nightclub girls.

QuoteI'm in the 5'7-5'8 range in a country where the average is around 5'11 lol. Even though the difference may appear large, I don't feel too short at all and I've never been called short after my CLL. It is common to see people around the same height as me or slightly taller and I could blend into crowds without appearing too short.

That's awesome. Keep up that positivity. 171cm was among the tallest average heights in the world a century ago, so definitely don't feel short. It's just that people in those tallest countries reached their genetic potential.

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Quote from: CaptainAmerica on March 19, 2018, 04:25:54 AMAs long as I don't feel constant knee pain at all times (even without walking, just resting), that's fine. That's my biggest concert.

Sweden complains about small aches, and the risk of early hip/knee arthritis is extremely real.

You need to take that into account too.